Rugby videos of tackles, tries, funny incidents and more: Ireland u20's challenge the Haka

Thursday, June 11, 2009

Ireland u20's challenge the Haka - Junior World Championship 2009

The Junior World Championship has captured the imagination of rugby fans across Japan as Under 20 sides from around the world compete for the title of the best team at that age group.

While most of the players taking part are inexperienced youngsters who are getting their first taste of international competition, there are some who have already taken the leap into professional rugby.

World Series Sevens, Guinness Premiership, and Super 14 players are all represented at the tournament, adding to the interest levels and the quality of play.

Last years champions New Zealand took on Ireland at the Mizuho Rugby Ground in Nagoya, but from the start Ireland showed that they were not to be intimidated by one of the most consistently powerful junior sides around.

As is commonplace these days, Ireland challenged the Haka, but perhaps went a bit overboard as they were practically standing on the players before it was over.

They were out to make a point, and they did just that as they match was confrontational and competitive, but they were no match for the might of the Baby Blacks, who won 17-0.

Did the young Irishmen take things a bit too far? Was Zac Guildford out of line for lashing out at the end? Or was it all perfectly fine and just another part of rugby theatre? We're keen to hear what you think.

Time: 02:22

The irish just looked like fools.
What wales did in the autumn was much better.

By Crank, at June 12, 2009 12:04 am
No, the all blacks get a underserved advantage with the haka, allow teams to reply or don't allow them to do it

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 12:07 am
Well the All-Blacks offered a confrontational challenge. Why is it suddenly "ungracious" and "irritating" for the Irish lads to do likewise?

"Ungracious", that smacks of arrogance from the Kiwi commentator.

By Hugh, at June 12, 2009 12:11 am
What the hell is wrong with that Martin Gilligan? "Ungracious...do they just want to cause controversy?" The haka is the most pointless piece of crap in rugby. I mean it's meant to be a challenge or whatever, but then whenever anyone does anything like walk up to it, or challenge it, it's disrespectful. I mean are they just meant to stand there at a good distance and watch it in silence? The Irish guys aren't Maori, nor are half the New Zealand team, so why should they have to put up with a bunch of guys sticking their tongues out and making complete fools of themselves? They should be able to do what they want. It's not as if they actually interfered with the stupid thing anyway. All they did was walk up to them.

By What is the point of it?, at June 12, 2009 12:15 am
You can stand up to it, but you cant really be standing on their toes before they've even finished.. surely? That's a bit much.

There's a 'line' that shouldn't be crossed, and in my opinion, they crossed it.

Then again, Guildford probably also crossed the line by pushing the guy, before kickoff.. so who knows whats right and wrong anymore lol

By FrankyH, at June 12, 2009 12:16 am
They should have to put up with it for the same reason as the sky is blue - thats the way it's always been. It's a tradition, and it's been around forever in rugby, so respect it and acknowledge it as just another reason for the sport being as great as it is.

Not to mention that New Zealand has been consistently one of the best, if not the best, rugby nations in the world. It's not as if Scotland are doing it and demanding respect! (no offense Scots.. had to pick someone..) ;)

By FrankyH, at June 12, 2009 12:19 am
From an antropological standpoint, non maoris shouldnt really have to show any respect to the haka as it has nothing to do with them just as it has nothing to do with rugby. It was used to ward off rival tribes when food resources (such as the moa) became scarse and populations fragmented into rival tribes. Before that the maoris were a fairly peacefull people.
It was the lack of food which bread the "warrior culture" which makes such great rugby players today.
Little digression for you there, but all fact.

By dr, at June 12, 2009 12:19 am
1989 Lansdowne Road. I'm shocked no one said this already.
A) This clearly was in homage to the Irish Test side's match in 1989 wherein the Irish did the same thing.
B) As said earlier, it is ridiculous to afford the New Zealand teams with such an advantage. The only problem I had with this at all was the shove from #11 for the Baby Blacks. That shove was uncalled for and I should hope shall lead to some reprimand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fg4FyhZ-Kg

By Colin, at June 12, 2009 12:21 am
FrankH

Are you a Kiwi? cos if u are, why pick on the scots? they pretty much made ur country what it is

By dr, at June 12, 2009 12:23 am
The Haka is a great tradition. It is a physical and intimidating challenge. Nothing more appropriate then than that a team should confront that challenge with their own. It isn't disrespectful to stand arm in arm and slowly walk towards the line of advancing all blacks. No Irish player pushed or jeered so for commentator to make such remarks is absurd. I think the old australian idea of just warming up and ignoring it is far more disrespectful.

It is an honest challenge issued and an honest challenge met. The fact that the under twenties might have been referencing the classic willie john mcbride challenge in lansdowne all those years ago seems to have escaped our commentator.

Rugby has had it's ungracious and irritating moments - Brian moore disrespecting the French anthem, Martin Johnson insisting Mary McAleese walk off the red carpet to meet him, the aussies ignoring the haka, the kapa o pango throat slitting jesture etc.. this episode does not rank amongst them.

By Simon, at June 12, 2009 12:28 am
Excuse me, Willie Anderson, not W.J. McBride.

By Simon, at June 12, 2009 12:31 am
Yes, it's tradition and that's just the problem. The overuse of the haka in modern times has devalued its meaning and it's become nothing more than a piece of entertainment before any game involving New Zealand. With regards to Ireland challenging it, I'm all for it, and may it continue. Why should New Zealand gain an unfair psychological advantage? Saying this, as an Englishman, I'm not gonna whip out my bells and sticks, and start Morris dancing on the pitch. You're right, there is a fine line with regards to respect etc, but you should be able to challenge back, and that's all the Irish lads did.

By Sport Psychologist, at June 12, 2009 12:35 am
the haka is a challenge, if you walk away or turn your back it means you dont accept it, if you stand there it means you want a fight, thats what the irish boys wanted, fair play lads they accepted the challenge but the better team won, end of discussion.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 12:42 am
yeah i agree with a few comments here especially colin and simon as though the haka should be respected i dont think its disrespectfull to challenge it back. refering to the willie anderson and his teams reply to it, the new zealand captain(whos name escapes me)during that match later said in an interview that he loved the way him and his team were challenged by the irish.

By con bons, at June 12, 2009 12:43 am
The Haka is all show. It wasn't until recently it has turned into such a spectacle. Look at The Haka back in the early 70s. You won't recognize it. Today it is meant to intimidate. It is an unfair advantage.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 12:53 am
U cld never get much sense from Brits. No one is saying that you cant stand up to it. I think most kiwis would have respected what the welsh did in the autumn, plenty of class and character.

This on the other hand was retarded. They had every intention of moving forward and being literally on top of the kiwis. There's a difference between standing up to the haka and in this case practically walking right into the middle of it. In fact the teams that perform best against the kiwis inevitably dont make too much of the haka. Spending time planning against something like that has historically not helped performance.

Alot has been made about the haka, the point is the islanders do it, and the aussies get waltzing matilda before the start of games. If u have a war dance as a nation you could very well do it, there's nothing against irb laws from preventing you from performing one. Should a nation not choose to perform, it should not be deprivation of other nations from performing.

Finally the saffers in 2005 chose to respond to the haka by resinging their national anthem. Again you can very well do that if you please. The south african national anthem is pretty long and it took some time before it ended, and the kiwis and the australian ref were fine with just waiting for them to finish.

By richard, at June 12, 2009 1:02 am
Teams should be able to respond to the "beloved" Haka anyway they want, as long as it doesn't cross the line. Simply standing up to a challenge doesn't constitute crossing the line by any means. And as far as the comment about the Haka in the 1970's not looking like todays . . . well New Zealand's team in the 70's were a bunch of white Kiwis trying to do a dance they knew nothing about. It looks like they're 4 year old ballerinas trying to remember steps in a recital. When Moaris and other Pacific Islanders started playing for the National team more consistently they brough the real Haka. The Haka was meant to be big, loud and intimidating - its the challenge that was throw down in war. It is what it is, but other nations should be able to do they're own "war dances" or stand up to the gauntlet being thrown down without all this circus afterwards.

By KLu, at June 12, 2009 1:06 am
No problem with the Haka (in general) or the youth teams doing it, I'm sure they get a great kick out of it.

But it seems that you just can't win when facing it. Ignore it and it's disrespectful, challenge it yourself and it's disrespectful (as said here and by Ma'a Nonu after Wales' challenge a while back).

As for the commentator, he couldn't be more precious about it. Boo-hoo, a team stand up and aren't intimidated about it and he's complaining. Sure, Ireland took it a tad too far but that shove at the end spoke of serious arrogance and disrespect for the counter-challenge. No word on that from the commentator. Typical one-eyed fan. Kiwi's do precious better than anyone else.

As has bee alluded to this was a homage to a similar challenge from the senior team years ago which was great. The commentator was too busy bleating about the lack of respect to realise this.

By Unknown, at June 12, 2009 1:10 am
If the Haka is going to happen then NZ should be willing to except anything that other teams are going to do too.... although the past has shown that by standing up to the haka you'll probably get spear tackled/taken out. As the previous people have said allow teams to reply or don't allow them to do it.

By Con, at June 12, 2009 1:15 am
Why do TV networks insist on employing commentators who have poor rugby knowledge and who's opinion is crap... i watched this match live and i was sure after some comments that the commentator was just making up facts...

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 1:19 am
Richard, you're absolutely wrong. The Kiwis did not respect what the Welsh did. Maa Nonu said afterwards that he found it insulting and that it really annoyed him.
And Ireland isn't a part of Britain. There's a thing called the Irish Sea separating them.

And again, they didn't interfere with the dance in any way. They just walked up to it. None of them laid a finger on the New Zealand players. And the Irish guys aren't Maori, so they don't have to take part in the haka. And since it's a war dance, from a time when Maori were barbarians, for want of a better word, isn't it a bit mad now that they're all English-speaking people who live in cities and have never been to war? I mean Scottish people used to moon their enemies on the battlefield, but they gave it up because they're not a bunch of wild men anymore.

By What is the point of it?, at June 12, 2009 1:22 am
Damn, Hugo and anonymous took the words right out of my mouth there.

By What is the point of it?, at June 12, 2009 1:25 am
I thought it was a good call by us Irish! Prob best in future to keep both teams at the 10 ...penalty otherwise.
Very condescending from the kiwi commentator ..."wiat for the backlash" etc

By Brennie, at June 12, 2009 1:26 am
I hate the way the Haka gets such over the top protection from anyone who stands up to it. Yes it's a great tradition, but why on earth you have to stand and just look at it while they get to phsyche themselves up is beyond me.

Whats wrong from fronting up to a challenge?

As for the Kiki commentators.......... just full of shit.

By JJM, at June 12, 2009 1:27 am
"Rugby has had it's ungracious and irritating moments - Brian moore disrespecting the French anthem, Martin Johnson insisting Mary McAleese walk off the red carpet to meet him, the aussies ignoring the haka, the kapa o pango throat slitting jesture etc.. this episode does not rank amongst them."

Brian Moore disrespecting the french anthem? When was that I don't remember

By wt?, at June 12, 2009 1:30 am
Don't get me wrong i love the haka, but the Kiwis have to understand that teams don't roll over like they used to. And if someone stands up to them to accept their challenge (becasue that is all it is), they have to live with it and stop being so petty.

And as for the Kiwi commentator, "Ungracious", that just shows the arrogance of some Kiwi rugby fans. Some Kiwis need to be brought down a peg or two in my opinion.

By Stuart, at June 12, 2009 1:31 am
the baby blacks made a challenge with the haka, the irish lads stood up to it, whats wrong with that. the irish were showing they weren't afraid, there is nothing wrong with confronting the haka, there was no disrespect intended. the irish showed they were up for it during the first half and put up a great fight. the shove at the end from the baby black was out of line

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 1:39 am
utterly confused by the commentator, 'why ireland have to be so confrontational, i dont know???' WAT!!! I mean walking towards someone outragous, just stick to pre-war rituals, bcos war dances are just friendly banter. Arrrggghhh one-eyed south hemisphere commentators.

By one-eyed idiots, at June 12, 2009 1:50 am
the haka is an important part of the new Zealand tradition, and so should be kept, and teams can and should be able to challenge as they wish, though thought this was not a strong challenge, and the welsh one was much stronger . . . . too much arrogance from the kiwi commentator!!

By Lawday, at June 12, 2009 1:51 am
pfft, who cares.

NZ do the haka- fine with that
Ireland stood up to it - fine also

haka an unfair advantage?
you must be kidding...

it's all showmanship, at the end of the day, the scoreboard tells the score, not the fact that you performed/ stood up to the haka.

By Matt_Drinks_New, at June 12, 2009 2:06 am
no problem with what the irish did. but i can't believe some of you say the haka is crap... every professional rugby player respects an honours the ABs for doing it - and "challenging" it is in my oppinion just a way to show that respect. it's like "bring it on! we're up to it!"
what maitland did might have looked a bit harsh, but that irish guy got so close to him that maitland couldn't finish his move, which would have been jumping in the air and thus hitting the irish guy with his head. so he was better off with pushing him...
and that commentator is a complete idiot... the ABs "provoke" their opponents with the haka, so why not react to it?
and is there any AB that has ever comlained about an opponent that stood up against the haka? no! but as far as i know no side that stood up or "challenged" the haka has ever won against the ABs afterwards... (correct me if i'm wrong...)

By opfazonk, at June 12, 2009 2:07 am
The Haka is a war dance for Christ's sake! Your supposed to take note of it! I think you should be allowed to be stood within 5 meters of it, but no closer and if you do so you should be there from the start to the end, not walking up like seen here.

To the Baby Blacks it must have seemed very disrespectful, given that to them, the Haka is something they will have seen their peers and country men perform all their lives, now their turn they might see this as disrespectful.

To the Baby Irish, they are up against probably the biggest challenge of their international careers thus far, anything they can do to not let the Baby All Blacks get an advantage i guess they would take

But lets not take it to heart to much as is suggested in the name they are just old enough to buy booze and visit certain websites, clearly mistakes like this will be made and the passion that must exist at that age on such a stage will always make people do odd things, but there kids so lets just move on eh?

Also, i always wondered would NZ teams be much more upset if opponents just ignored the Haka? just a thought...

By Lil Chris, at June 12, 2009 2:09 am
@chris: the wallabies did it - and they lost...

By opfazonk, at June 12, 2009 2:11 am
Opfazonk, yes Ma'a Nonu complained after Wales did their 'challenge' of standing there. How people can be upset because they stood there is beyond me. And i'm sure he wasn't the only one.

By What is the point of it?, at June 12, 2009 2:19 am
A lot of Kiwis seem to have peculiar views on the haka. The vast majority of people think that the Haka is a challenge and the correct response is another challenge (or usually another haka).

Ireland U20, Wales, Munster. . .these teams all offered a challenge but fully respected the haka.

However some people like this commentator as well as Ma'a Nonu (who was widely criticised for his limited knowledge of this in NZ) say that the only way of respecting the haka is to stand in silence.

By Redstag, at June 12, 2009 2:19 am
Bloody whinging poms and Irish.
The haka's awesome, there's nothing else like it in sport, and it is a great and old tradition.Losing it because a bunch of northern fairies have their knickers in a twist would b a damnshame.
Having said that, I have absolutley no problem at all wiuth the Irish walking forward and challengin tha haka. Good on them, as long as they are then willing to take on the All Blacks, who will only be moe fired up after seeing the Irish come forward.
If the Irish lad didn't wanna get pushed, he shouldn't have moved that far forward.
The irony is that while evceryone's going on about the challenge to the haka, people ignore the fact that just like the Irish side in 1989, these Iish blokes got beaten, and beaten well.
Couldn't score a single point.
So perhapos instead of focussing on challengin the haka, they should do what the Aussies and Saffas do in the face of the haka. i.e. don't worry about the bloody thing, just focus on the game of rugby and try to beat the kiwis by scoring more points.
All this talk of an unfair advantage is garbage as well. No one thinks that the Fijians, Tongans or Samoans get an unfair advantage from their cultural dancing crap at the start of the game, cuz they don't have the same quality of players, and so they don't win nearly as many atches.
Ultimatley the haka has absolutley nothing to do with NZ dominating world rugby for the past 100 years, it's just because hey are damn good at rugby, the best.
Suck it up, and learn how to beat them on the field, instead of bitching and moaning about the haka, which is really just a mildly entertaining tradiion before games.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 2:30 am
The Haka should be respected and is a great spectical for all rugby fans and challenging the Haka is in the opposing teams right, but when will opposing teams learn, when you challenge the Haka with little respect, all this does is fire up the Kiwis. Every team that has not shown due respect has been walloped in the following match. All teams are allowed their pre-match tradition so have respect for all teams i.e. Somoa & Tonga perform their wardances, Spingboks take to the field in track pants, the Wallabies tried a warm-up routine before a test match a few years back, which only made them look pointless.
Every team can incorporate a tradition if they so wish but then the opposing team should respect it without stepping over the line.

I think that what Wales did last year, by standing their ground long after the Haka, was a show of respect and a challenge - it was intense and a perfect response.

Challenge at your own risk.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 2:32 am
Just as a follow up on my comment important to note that in Ireland people dont care about the guy getting pushed.

They chose to challenge it in that manner and thats what happened.

They did it because they respect the haka. Because its a unique challenge that they respect.

By Redstag, at June 12, 2009 2:32 am
what a complete dick of a commentator, irritating? ungracious? confrontational? Did he really say confrontational? Is doing a wardance not confrontational? What a complete dipshit, it's a challenge, Ireland are entitled to face it and react to it in whatever way the want. If you want ungracious look at the kiwi pushing the irish player at the end. What an arrogant fool commentator, I don't claim to speak for the world of rugby fans but I reckon his attitude is the reason many people sniggered as France booted the ABs out of the last world cup.
Hey New Zealand, you're a great rugby nation, you're respected and admired, your traditional haka is a spectacle of AB games. A bit of advice though, lose your attitude or the world will lose all respect for you.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 2:34 am
I totally agree that the other team should be allowed to respond. It's my understand that the haka is a challenge as well as a way to galvanize the troops. I am a fan of the All Blacks, and I don't think it's disrespectful at all to stand up to it. It's saying "Hey, if you're gonna bring it, then so am I." If I were facing someone during/after I'd just done the haka, and they stood toe-to-toe with me, I would feel respected, like I was worthy of the challenge. I'd still ripe their f**king head off, but at least it would be a worthy opponent, someone who brought everything they had. That's when rugby is at it's best, when it's a fight to the death, so to speak.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 2:38 am
advantage my ass guys...
the ABs were beaten many times and won their last world cup more than 20 years ago...
so what advantage are you talking about?

By opfazonk, at June 12, 2009 2:42 am
does anyone know the outcome of this match ??

By jamestheconvict, at June 12, 2009 2:48 am
Score was 17-0 but the Irish boys really put it up to us for long periods. They lived up to their challenge on the pitch.

By Kiwi1979, at June 12, 2009 2:52 am
The commentators are suck fossils. If teams want to confront the haka by all means do, as long as they're ready for the consequences.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 2:53 am
Everyone gets caught up in the haka, but it's not really important how you respond to it if you can't then beat the kiwis on the pitch.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:00 am
why do a haka to present a challenge?? they're gona tackle the shit outta each other anyway of course they are gonna accept whether they do the haka or not. these days its pure entertainment and only for the good of the nz side.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:06 am
It's awesome, and a great rugby tradition. All this moaning about the haka is purile and pathetic.
No one moans about the Island countries doing their war dances cuz they aren't the All Blacks and they don't dominate rugby (outside the world cup where they seem to choke - although last time they got robbed by Barnes).

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:12 am
Right first things first, The commentator's are fucking idiots. Then there's the Kiwi's who think they are the best and only rugby players around.. (Who are the world champs again Oh ye South Africa) do u ever here them goin on bout how good they are??.. Also i think the Haka is a big load of shite, well done to the Eire boys for standin up to it, personaly i think its the funniest lookin thing ever, a load of grown men thinkin there Rambo:)..The best thing to do wud be laugh in there face, see how they like that.. And to finish this rant.. Some1 shud hav dropped that baby black at the end of tat shit, they talk about Eire dissrespecting them and then he pushes the irish lad... Retards

By TheRealSlimShady, at June 12, 2009 3:17 am
really lads i love the haka its a great spectacle but its part of maori tradition and was used to psyhce up the troops.. and i think only teams with a short and snappy act like the haka should be allowed not like the welsh standoff ,if the irish were to use their age old warfare techniques of getting pissed and bull rushing the enemy haha

By number7, at June 12, 2009 3:18 am
Realslimshady, your a joke. It's a cultural tradition stretching abck centuries and represents maori culture, a proud part of the NZ culture. Rugby has been a unifying force for NZ, a country which has needed to come to terms with it's colonial past, inlcuding the wars with and supression of the Maori people.
The Haka represents the unification of the Pakeha and the Maori and is also a great and proud rugby traidtion, which any true rugby fan would respect, even venerate.
At a guess, your a fly-by-night fan, who's jumped on board the rugby bandwagon since the Irish got a half decent team (half decent, cuz in over 100 years of rugby they've yet to beat NZ - truly an inditment on their rugby team).
The AUssie and Saffers (who are the only sides in the world to consistently beat the All Blacks) never disrespect the haka, or even let it bother them.
They just focus on the rugby game to be played, and try to, you know, beat the kiwis at the game of rugby they are playing.
Although I guess if you got your arse cnsistently handed to you on a plate for over 100 years of rugby, you'd start focussing on irrelevant detals like the haka, to draw attention away from the terrible, shameful record of a century of abject defeat.
In this game thew Irish couldn't score a single point, so what good did their petulent little challenge acually do them?
Learn how to play world-class rugby, then people will worry about whether or not you like the haka.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:23 am
the haka ia a maori tradition.
it has a place in rugby.
it should be openly disrespected by opposing teams as a multi cultural answer to its very nature..or else it has no place in international rugby..

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:26 am
I've trained and played with these guys NZ set at challenge and the boys responded as for the officals they over reacted.

By Daylo, at June 12, 2009 3:28 am
To anonymous above, Australia did a warmup during the haka once didn't they? Is that not disrespecting it? I suppose nobody knows since nobody can actually give a good answer of how to respect it aside from standing there looking scared at all these caucasions slapping themselves and sticking their tongues out. And I'm a big fan of rugby, and i don't venerate the haka, i think it's stupid. And you're complaining that Ireland never beat NZ? So what? Do NZ beat Brazil in soccer? Ireland have so few players compared to NZ, we don't have loads of Fijians to steal, we only have white people whereas NZ have Maori and white, and rugby is not nearly as big a deal here as it is in NZ. We really shouldn't be beating you. You should be beating us by 50 points every time.

By What is the point of it?, at June 12, 2009 3:40 am
the haka has a place in rugby.the haka is a maori tradition.there are other countries who play rugby.if new zealanders continue to cross the boundaries of other country's norms, and are outraged by these peoples reactions to their war dance then they should cease to exact this rite on peoples on who are unfamiliar with their traditions.they should allow their people to demonstrate to the world what the many hakas are as they already do.the new zealand rugby team are actually not that good at the haka when compared with the 50 or so tribes of new zealand.when teams like ireland and wales challenge the haka it is in actual fact a celebration of rebellion against the empire of great britain for which the maori stand.rugby fans should take note as they are not always involved in the muscle bound sattelite stupor that they believe.new wibe site needed even though i love this one

By wolonel, at June 12, 2009 3:41 am
The Irish went a little too far by crossing into the NZ 50....

If they didn't do that, as far as I'm concerned anything responce goes....

I say its about time a team bends over and just moons the allblacks half way through the haka!

By Ryan, at June 12, 2009 3:57 am
The Maori represent the british empire?
What are you smoking?
They fought the English for 100 years, it's called the Maori Wars,you ingorant bastard.
In fact, they are probably the only native culture to suceed in defeating the British, who never overcame them and had to sign a eace treaty ceading King's Country on the North Island tothe Maori people as part of the peace deal.
Learn your history or keep your ignorant gob shut.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 4:05 am
i'm reading more postings than normal..but dot dot dot...\
anonymous a post or two below seems to think that i've said that maori rebellion is akin to the british empire's dominance over the celtic nations, when clearly i've stated that countries such as ireland and wales admire the maori for their stance against the british(english) in rugby and out of rugby..unfortunately in when i was in new zealand in met many people who had little regard for any language let alone english..i can't speak to you in irish or the other languages i speak(german,spanish,swedish)..but i can tell you now that a swift word in the ear is better than any haka, but is not allowed in rugby so sit down

By wolonel, at June 12, 2009 4:34 am
What is the point of it? said... The Kiwis did not respect what the Welsh did. Maa Nonu said afterwards that he found it insulting and that it really annoyed him.

In fact Nonu was widely criticised by many NZers including Maori elders who said his attitude was wrong. Like many other things in life there are a lot of different viewpoints on the haka.

As a NZer I enjoy the theatre of the haka and also appreciate its tradition as a ritual, but I do think there is a danger of some NZ teams and their oppositions taking it too seriously. The overly nationalistic cultural preciousness that seems to be creeping in is off-putting for me personally and a lot of other people feel the same way. I don't think that we need to go back to the old days of a few blokes half-heartedly waiving their arms around while the opposition kicks the ball about in the background, but let's not get too carried away with all this warrior mystique. When one of the posters on here defends the haka and then refers to other Island traditions as "cultural dancing crap" then you know some people just aren't thinking this through.

In the end it's about a game of rugby.

By robert, at June 12, 2009 4:43 am
I always said standing against the haka is Great, you want to dance in front of your opponent so be it but dont expect them to stand there as if nothing happened

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 4:45 am
Commentators sanctimonious gits.

Fair play to the Irish lads, standing up to this pretentious Broadway dance number. The haka is a tired little spectacle.

By Village Lions NY, at June 12, 2009 4:48 am
The haka's awesome, people standing up to it is great too. Doesn't mean much if you get beaten anyway though.
And it'd be a sad day for rugby if it was gotten rid of, because of the pathetic whinging of a bunch of poms and Irish with their knickers in a twist.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 5:00 am
the treaty of whyfangee(my tongue) was also a economical necessity for the british, as the dutch were hot on their boats. doubtless the pearl like fascination the brits have held your isles since then has increased your stature amongst your standing(!) in the game.in the nearest island to england a game by the natives even after 800 years of influence.i have a feeling that the maori v the gaels would have no interest to this blog apart from ridicule.

By wolonel, at June 12, 2009 5:09 am
good show by ireland, new zealand, again, dont be such bitches

By Keith R., at June 12, 2009 5:31 am
Wow, most people don't realise that the opposing team DOES have the opportunity to respond. As someone pointed out, the Wallabies once did a 30 second training drill after the haka (they'd been allowed no warm up before the game), I've read stories from the early part of last century that the Welsh teams would sing a hymn after the haka.
The only problem with other teams responding, is what are they going to respond with? Waltzing matilda just isn't going to cut it for the wallabies.

I would LOVE to see other teams RESPOND to the haka, but I cringe every time I see teams do something to impede the haka (e.g. getting in their way, singing over the top). Wales last year was EXCELLENT. They stood up to them and didn't move during the haka or afterwards. One commentator said: It was fantastic. It was like they were saying "this is OUR turf, you have to back off first and get out of OUR way."
I paraphrase a little, but you get the jist. BUT THEY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO DETRACT FROM THE HAKA. That was the best bit.

By granite, at June 12, 2009 5:49 am
That's right, the vast majority of kiwis I've spoken o, particularly Maori, love it when a team accepts the challenge.
Personally, I think teams let it get into their heads too much.
Australia (who consistently beat the kiwis) just stand there and watch and do't let it bother them.
Then they go out and play rugby realy well.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 5:57 am
Anonymous said...
Didn't the Irish lse 17-0?
So I guess the kiwis made this Irish team their bitches.

Shove someone who's done nothing but stand in your face next time you kiwi prick

By Keith R., at June 12, 2009 6:02 am
The Haka is a challenge right? So if you don't accept the challenge, you're basically saying you're not there to play. Ireland just accepted the challenge.

This whole haka thing has been blown way out of proportion. Yes it's a tradition which I love, but there's nothing wrong with responding to it. It's not like New Zealand has a monopoly on pre-game antics.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 6:28 am
"discurtious" to a war dance challenge, totally agree with the majority of the comments here, if the kiwis are allowed the unfair advantage of pyching themselves up, then the opposing team should be allowed to meet this challenge, not just stand and watch, like a bunch of old age pensioners at a museum...

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 6:42 am
they both looked stupid there
why cant every rugby nation have there own little festive dance before a game, it would be like cheerleading but for yourself thats what the haka really is

By Zacaria, at June 12, 2009 7:23 am
It's not like New Zealand has a monopoly on pre-game antics.

June 12, 2009 6:28 AM

loved that one!

By Zacaria, at June 12, 2009 7:25 am
What an idiot that commentator is. If you don't want people to respond, either by facing up to it and walking towards it, then don't do it! It's as simple as that. I'll be damned if I see the psychological advantage being repeatedly given over to the kiwis so good on you boys.

'Ungracious', never heard such a load of tripe in my entire life

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 7:58 am
Teams CAN do what they like to the
haka. It's fine. It's just all the pathetic girly complaining (almost exclusivley from poms and irish - way to reinforce the stereotype of whinging girls from the UK and Ireland)from you lot that is annoying.
Stop your moaning.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 8:01 am
THE HAKA SUCK!!!!!

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 8:28 am
I'm still thinking that the only "ungracious" way to respond the haka was ingnore it like we did during the world cup in marseille,in Italy we were irritated by this Berbizier decision,so I don't see anything wrong with the young irishman,maybe one step behind would be better.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 8:51 am
RD - stop this madness and disable comments, ironic I am commenting to say this I know, but comments just attract nonsense.
let the ABs do the haka, let teams face it in what ever way they want, let there be a good game of rugby.
End.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 9:24 am
Challenge laid down, challenge accepted......not a problem with 99.9% of NZ or Ireland but its seems that most people here want to listen to the whining of the 0.1% minority and paint that as the facts.
Human nature I guess, only hear what you wanna hear.

By Simon7, at June 12, 2009 9:25 am
"Teams CAN do what they like to the
haka. It's fine. It's just all the pathetic girly complaining (almost exclusivley from poms and irish - way to reinforce the stereotype of whinging girls from the UK and Ireland)from you lot that is annoying.
Stop your moaning" - Anonymous

Mate you're a tool, Irish people enjoy the haka, the spectacle between the two teams like the u20s is what draws people to rugby. You're trying to stereotype Brits and Irish as sooks, mate you're a typical kiwi wanker, full of arrogance and bullshit, where are all your world cups for how good you are? Oh yeah I forgot you've had barren spell for what... 20 years?

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 9:29 am
heres a suggestion, y not make the halfway line the "line"? each team can do what they like in their own half be it the haka, sipi tau or whatever and the other team can stand or advance but both stopping at the halfway line, giving the oppertunity to lay down the challenge and accept it without causing a fight!!

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 9:38 am
well done lads... there are 2 teams on that pitch... take the challange head on!!!.... C'mon Ireland

By paddy the slap, at June 12, 2009 9:50 am
If you dont stand up to the Haka, then you giving them an advantage.By standing up to them ur setting them the challenge,not letting them win the challenge before the game starts.Wales ratled them in the Autumn by showing they wernt moving,which was something that hadnt happened for a while.If the All Blacks cant stand up to the challenge and moan everytime someone stands up to them,then dont do the Haka!!

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 9:59 am
Neutral chipping in here... The haka is a great tradition that should be kept. Then again, no need for the other team to stand like sheep and soak it up.

There's a half way line on the pitch, use it. Pre game, do want you want on your own half but don't cross the line. Problem solved.

The Irish marched so close the Blacks couldn't finish properly, seems they paid a fitting price for it though.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 10:01 am
Fair play to the irish imo.

By goodNumber10, at June 12, 2009 10:08 am
iv heard retired all-blacks say they love it when they are confronted like this whilst doing the haka

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 10:16 am
A perfect example of copycat haka challenge...

The fact is that some teams miss the real sense of haka.
Personnally i loved wales "static" answer or the "march" of France during the RWC 2007, bacause they do it for themselves and with respect.

Here, it's just some young irritating fools..

By Flooz, at June 12, 2009 10:25 am
The irish looked stupid.

By samitarugby, at June 12, 2009 10:26 am
Both commentators = absolute gimps!! Well done to the Irish lads, if the NZ boys wanna lay down a challange, why can't the rest?!!!

Well done Ireland u-20s

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 10:38 am
What the Irish boys did was just showing that they have balls, it's good actually, keeps the adrenaline pumped up...The haka is the maori way of showing physical challenge and when it is presented you have to accept it and prove your manhood, if you back out of it you'll have to live with the shame until another opportunity presents itself, in this case the Irish boys did what they should...they were proud to represent their country and that they weren't going to back down. The likes of the haka tradition is what makes rugby a colourful sport. But please, 'ungracious'?...what about the other 'ungracious' things the other rugby teams have done. This is a rugby thing...keep it beating. Rugby itself is being disgraced by other people and other sports. You know what we can do? Support Rugby 7's into the Olympics. Huhu...peace~

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 10:55 am
I honestly rate NZ as the best rugby nation in the world and I love to watch the haka, and war dances from any of the pacific nations whenever they play. But you have to think about those Irish boys, and what was going through their heads pre-game. Ireland have never beaten NZ since the sport turned pro (I think Ireland beat them like 100 years ago, but I can't think that far back!!)

But I doubt the Ireland U20s have ever come out triumphant against the Baby Blacks. And they were going out there pumping themselves up as the Baby Blacks did, in hope there was a chance to beat NZ before their senior team does.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 11:26 am
that commentator is just kissing the arse of the kiwi. nothing wrong with confronting the haka. do nz just expect the other teams to just sit back and take it? its an unfair advantage in that case. im sick of all this bullshit of people expecting people to admire the haka respectively. its a challenge that should be confronted. the NZ player pushing the irish back just looked like an idiot.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 11:32 am
the irish lads got a bit excited but come on! the arrogance! convincing win though from the addidas-newzealand-and-pick-of-the-islands-all-blacks (registered-trademark). lets be honest. these days the haka is a marketing tool. dry your eyes.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 11:36 am
The Irish lads were fine to do what they did although they did pass the half way line during the Haka which shouldn't have been allowed.
I think that may be what made the Kiwi's blood boil.
The Haka is a part of rugby history. Great to watch as a fan.
Not as good as seeing Chabal up against the Haka!

By Bradders, at June 12, 2009 11:42 am
the haka is there to propose a challenge, if ireland want to confront it and accept the challenge then thats is brilliant! if the all blacks want to do the haka then they should expect confrontation.

it is an unfair advantage and i believe teams can do what they want aslong as they dont interfere with it.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 12:11 pm
A few points:

1) The haka is bullshit. At best it’s an unfair chance to intimidate the opposition, at worst (and more likely) it’s a nicely marketable little showpiece, perfect for the likes of Adidas to latch on to.
2) I watch the full 80 minutes of 30 to 35 rugby matches a year and maybe two of those have a haka at the start. It makes shit-all difference to me and almost never enhances the match. One notable exception was last November when the NZ players on the Munster squad responded with their own haka, but that was enjoyable because I thought they were really giving two fingers back at the NZ team.
3) The pretentiousness surrounding the haka makes me want to throw up. I’m pretty sure the SA team could muster some indigenous dance or show, Australia probably could too, we Irish could say Mass or drink ourselves into a stupor, but none of these countries do. Why NZ and the South Pacific nations get special dispensation to perform a haka is beyond me. But any nation can do whatever they want before a match, I hear you wail. That’s probably true, but realistically that is never going to happen.
4) Any value the haka once had is long gone. Who here knew that the haka is also performed by NZ’s mens hockey team? It is, I’ve seen it, and it’s embarrassing.
5) While a team’s reaction to the haka may have little bearing on the outcome of the match, saying that standing up to it never pays dividends is incorrect. See: France NZ haka WC2007.

I’m sick of the haka, NZ (public and players, Nonu) preciousness about it and the reverence it is treated with in rugby circles. I’d still watch and play rugby if there was no haka.

By Tanora, at June 12, 2009 12:14 pm
irish lads prob should've been a step or two further back while the kiwi fella shouldn't have pushed out, so both are sort of in the wrong, so balance all round then! :)

By Unknown, at June 12, 2009 12:26 pm
nothing wrong here. if they made the haka in front of me I probably done the same. it`s like a preview. it´s when the battle begins.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 12:28 pm
Seriously that was all just theatre, who cares about the haka not all of us want to see it at the start of each game its a bullying tactic almost. Too far by the number 11 with the push absolute stupidity, if you can use bully tactics they can reply to it. How about they just stop the haka all together total b***sh*t really.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 12:47 pm
"They fought the English for 100 years"

Im pretty sure it was largely the french...and i dont think it involved much fighting...mostly just dieing! Sounds harsh but the Europeans had guns and the Moaris just had sticks. It was a horrendous period of history.

By dr, at June 12, 2009 1:10 pm
im tom sexton the hooker of the irish under 20s and id just like to say that regardless of your thoughts of what we did my ab's are chizzled!

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 1:13 pm
The Haka is one of the greatest showpieces existing in sport.
However this namby pambering around it that standing up to it is not being respectful is complete rubbish, a challenge to it should be allowed. However the Irish looked like absolute plonkers compared to the welsh challenge to it.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 1:22 pm
Ireland just took the challenge. All blacks declared war with their haka and Ireland took the challenge. No disgrace at all.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 1:24 pm
Ban the Haka.

Having a load of Samoans, tongans and Fijians doing it seems a bit pointless.

Remeber when they had a hissy fit when wales wanted to reply to it with their anthem and they did it in the changing rooms. What gives them the right? nothing does

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 1:29 pm
oh ye tom i agree i saw u in ur skintight jersey looking very well! TOM SEXTON U RULE!!!LOL LOL LOL

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 1:30 pm
17-0 > nice fat donut for the Irish.

Best way to shut them up.

And what?

By Armstrong, at June 12, 2009 1:34 pm
The haka can p*ss off and so can the british and irish lions.

2 Rugby traditions NOT worth keeping.

Why should the home nations and the oirish get to join forces and play happy families on tour every 4 years....screw them. Bury the tradition - they get spanked every time anyway and waste a shetload of money in the process.

Oiks!

By leanbeef, at June 12, 2009 1:39 pm
Whether it was disrespectful or not I feel is besides the point. The main issue is how stupid it made the rugby world look. When Wales did stood their ground or when Chabal marched France up to the Haka; it was theatrical almost and certainly entertaining. This is in a Junior game and it really takes an edge of past incidents when people really cared about the match and this caused drama.

The boys should focus on improving their skills to make the step up rather than trying to look like big shots.

By Luther, at June 12, 2009 2:18 pm
Commentatores are fools....The Haka i a war dance which is used to intimidate the opposition....

But the opposition is not allowed to walk infront of then no?
What were the irish lads taking away their fresh breathing air or something?
So bassically they are allowed to threathen us with a violent war dance but we cannot walk towards them? yea that makes sense...

What Irish teams should do is walk up as far as the half way line and sing out the fields of Athenry from the top of their voices...But I suppose that would be disrespectful too ....

By themull, at June 12, 2009 2:19 pm
Leanbeef you are a fucking capper.

Ireland did lose 17-0 yeh, but if you saw the match it was 3-0 until the 60th minute, and NZ maturity showed through. Guilford plays pro, the Irish lads are in college!!

The haka is a bunch of set movements, so is forming a wedge and ending right-up on the Kiwis shoe-laces, 6 of one half dozen of the other.

Commentators sounded English to me?

And thatt Irish prop in the picture on the far left went to my old school!

By Brick Shithouse, at June 12, 2009 2:28 pm
The haka a lot of people refer to the haka as a war dance if I'm correct. Don't get me wrong I love to watch the Haka but it is a war dance. So I wouldn't stand there and wait for them to finish. I think every country should ignore the rules of the haka and do what they like. I probably get my out half and full back to kick garryowens around the haka to pish them off. It might work , it might not but if you wanna go to war with me I should be entitled to challenging your war dance anyway I want!

Herbie

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 2:34 pm
The haka is a war dance right? So why do they('they' being mostly caucasions and fijians) do it before a rugby match? Do they do it before they play playstation games? Do they do it before a 100m sprint? Or before a cricket match? If so then they're stupid. If not, then why do they do it in rugby?

By What is the point of it?, at June 12, 2009 2:35 pm
that commentator was biased....
teams should be allowed reply however they want to

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 2:38 pm
c'mon IRELAND!!

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 2:42 pm
might i add that what the commentator said about the irish being ungracious is ridiculous considerig the haa is about killing you tearing you to pices and raping your women/sheep

and over here in ireland we love the feckin haka and since the munster game where we responded last year there have been a spate of teams doing ever increasing and more agressive means of standing up to it

By number7, at June 12, 2009 2:43 pm
whats with these nothern hemisphere teams standing up to the haka..if they not even good enough to beat the junior blacks..if they gna do it atleast play well and perform.

By Alain, at June 12, 2009 2:50 pm
Why are these teams allowed to do these stupid war dances before they kick off? For all the teams that don't have one it is a massive disadvantage. They should be able to do whatever they want to challenge it, as long as they don't make physical contact. those irish boys should have held together like the welsh and stayed their ground but the kiwis that came forward were just as bad. it's just a massive waste of time. the nz basketball team does it for god's sake.

By Richard, at June 12, 2009 2:52 pm
Dr you sir are an idiot, who should learn his history or shut the fuck up.
How is this for ignorant :
"Im pretty sure it was largely the french...and i dont think it involved much fighting...mostly just dieing! Sounds harsh but the Europeans had guns and the Moaris just had sticks. It was a horrendous period of history."

The French? In NZ? They've never been there.
Not much fighting? Do you know what a Pa is? How the British lost almost evrey major set piece battle of the maori wars?
And did you know that the Maori had been trading for firearms for about a century when the British declared war on them?
That after decades of brutal, scroched earth warfare and the death of thousands the British were forced to declare a peace treaty with the Maori? That they ceded King's Country to them, as part of the terms of peace?
Or are you just an ignorant bastard who shouldn't open his ignorant mouth?

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 2:55 pm
the irish players are still in school..alot of these baby blacks are playing pro

By number7, at June 12, 2009 2:57 pm
The kiwis are the best godamn rugby team on the planet.
The reason they win is that they are fucking good at rugby.
They are better than you softies in the NH and always will be.
The haka has nothing to do with it.
When you learn how to play rugby, you can critisize them. Until then shut up and apreciate a great tradition.
And I aint even a kiwi.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 2:57 pm
kiwis are mentally disturbed fools who ruin everything good about rugby

abolish the haka and ban that commentator

By DeutscheWing, at June 12, 2009 3:01 pm
The commentator who everyone is complaining about is English, you lot of idiots.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:05 pm
the haka is done for the crowd not the team they are playing...its just a bit of theatre to help the atmosphere
the same as scotland with the pipers...wales with the singers...only to build up the atmosphere for the start of the match..

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:09 pm
Well, not only did the Irish boys look like fools, but they got thrashed 17-0 which made their initial "bravado" look even sillier.

Fair enough to stand up to the Haka, but at least be able to back it up.
ROFLMAO!

PS - I'm not a Kiwi.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:13 pm
Why should we respect the haka if the AB's can't respect our response? Point being when Wales wanted to respond with there anthem and the AB's had a hissy fit.
I like seeing the haka. I wouldn't want them to stop it, but opponents should be able to respond how they see fit. Granted I do think that the Irish U20's made themselves look like tits. However its there right to do that as a response.

By Cheech, at June 12, 2009 3:13 pm
i think it hilarious that New Zealanders get offended by teams response, Ireland, Wales, France have all done it and well done. Haka being a War dance and sutling saying their ready for battle...but no no, please dont defend us. If they cant accept the response dont so the Haka

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:16 pm
Number7 - Sorry to piss on your party of "since the munster game where we responded last year there have been a spate of teams doing ever increasing and more agressive means of standing up to it", but the Springboks were in fact the first team (during the 1995 RWC final) to rank up and walk toward the All Black Haka.

Although, the Boks at least have the good grace not to walk into the Haka.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:19 pm
hey anonamous the springboks...are you stupid if you would have read some of the comments here you would have learned willie anderson led the irish u in 1989....sorr to piss on your party

By number7, at June 12, 2009 3:25 pm
Who cares? If you can't beat the kiwis on the field, in the game, then it doesn't bloody matter what you do to the goddamn haka.
You can walk up to it, stand your ground, do a fuckin jig, it doesn't matter, cuz all anyone's gonna remember is that you lost the bloody game.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:29 pm
The commentator is a joke,'verging on the insulting',the whole point of the haka is a war challenge,and Ireland and any other team that do stand up to it have every right to.Quoting Buck Shelton its 'fantastic' when someone challenges it,in reference to him and Richard Cockerill a couple of years ago.As well as that if the Kiwis get upset when people challenge and confront a 'war challenge' then the haka shouldnt be part of modern rugby.The irish where perfectly entitled to do what they did.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:30 pm
And they lost anyway, so what was the bloody point.
How about focusing on getting better skills at rugby?
Or just keep losing, either way.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:35 pm
I just realised from watching this, that the Irish players don't get in Zac's way at the end. So for everyone saying that they interfered with it, you're all wrong. Anyway if this was war, the New Zealanders would all be shot while they're slapping themselves and sticking their tongues out.

By What is the point of it?, at June 12, 2009 3:35 pm
Well the Baby Blacks gave it to em. HAHAHAHA!

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:38 pm
Well it's actually a game of rugby, but yeah, good point about war, you knob end.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:38 pm
i dont believe the haka is pointless but if they are laying down a challenge then why cant Ireland respond in a way they see fit? does smack somewhat of double standards

By Joe, at June 12, 2009 3:40 pm
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:44 pm
"All the NZ players play pro"

What only Zac Guildford? One player out of an entire squad? Nice comeback muppet. He is the only survivor from last years World Champion U20 team - the Irish and all the Six Nations teams have played together already in their own competition so they're already familiar with each other and should have gelled enough to beat an inexperienced NZ team 99.9% playing together in a tournament for the first time.

Its all stacked against the kiwis yet they still donut the "mighty" irish ROFLMAO

F*kn jokers haha

By FattyCuts, at June 12, 2009 3:44 pm
Number7 - Willie who?
Let me re-phrase, The Springboks were the first team to walk towards the Haka, that is, the first team that could actually back up the challenge. Unlike the "home" Unions and the B&I Lions. What was it again? Oh! 3-0 to the ABs in 2005.
ROFLMAO!

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:45 pm
The B&I lions didnt walk towards the haka,they actually went to extreme lengths to act accodingly,as in the captain and the youngest lions there walked up,so get ur facts straight,and by the way no here is sayin that the all blacks are bad,we all know they are the best team in the world,but were jst sayin that other teams should do what they want to do when they are doin the haka,and as well if it wasnt for a couple of dodgy refing decisions the irish could easily have won

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:51 pm
The commentators just expect Ireland to applaude afterwards or what? If a team wants to challenge the Haka, they have that right, just as the AB's do in performing it. No big deal.

By David, at June 12, 2009 3:54 pm
When the All Blacks show respect to the Haka by selling it to Adidas and having it copyrighted, why would the expect other nations to be precious about it.

The commentators over reacted at the end. Why shouldn't the Irish guys advance on the haka? As has been said, why is it almost universally accepted that teams just stand there and accept it? Possibly the Irish lads messed up a photo op for the commentator.

As for the backlash? IT didn't really materialise did it? It's not as if the Irish guys were annihilated by the baby blacks.

Commentators, get over yourselves.

By Ammo, at June 12, 2009 3:55 pm
the hakas bollocks, its supposed to be intimidation but if anyone 'dares' reply u all just bitch and moan about it being uncourtious, why should u get shout and scream nd stick ur tounges out nd the other teams not allowed to do anything

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:57 pm
17-0.
That's a punishing scoreline.
To not score a single point, jesus christ, if that's not getting your arse kicked, what is? negative points?

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:57 pm
I dunno, 17-0 is a bit of an arse raping IMVHO...

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 3:58 pm
irish with lack of respect for a beautifull tradition (i'm dutch, no all black fan, but you gotta show some respect to your oponents)

glad to see they got smacked with 17-0!!

By Cheis, at June 12, 2009 4:01 pm
Again wud u lads get ur facts straight,no team has comewithin 30 points of new zealand u20's since australia beat them a couple of years ago,new zealand where only 3-0 up at half time,and got a couple of tries when ireland 13.Nevin Spence was in the sin bin

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 4:04 pm
for the only way to respond to the haka without making kiwis cry, go to 2:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtqesudKxSA

p.s. everyone who says "p.s. i'm not a kiwi" after big upping them clearly is because everyone else in the world thinks they're dicks.

boom.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 4:05 pm
Bad fucking losers.
The Irish have never, ever beaten the kiwis. Ever.
In over 100 years.
So shut the fuck up.

PS Im not a kiwi

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 4:09 pm
were not sore losers,we know were beaten,and we know well that we hav never beaten them,all were sayin is that people should be aloud challenge the haka any way they want.

P.S; im irish

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 4:12 pm
Challenge as much as you want. It counts for nothing if you then lose the game.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 4:13 pm
Lose,as in the same thing the Kiwis do every time the World Cup comes around?

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 4:15 pm
And how many world cups have Ireland won? How'd they go in the last world cup.
STFU

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 4:16 pm
Number7 - Willie who?
Let me re-phrase, The Springboks were the first team to walk towards the Haka, that is, the first team that could actually back up the challenge. Unlike the "home" Unions and the B&I Lions. What was it again? Oh! 3-0 to the ABs in 2005.
ROFLMAO!

to the nonamoaus who posted that..wille anderson was a better player and man that you will ever be so stop posting behind a anonamous and stick a name behind that bullshit of yours

By number7, at June 12, 2009 4:18 pm
I'm completely in favour of the haka, surely as a player it's one of the greatest things to witness. yet I don't see the problem with giving a challenge back, surely it's just a way of saying "we're ready".

By Sean Kelly, at June 12, 2009 4:25 pm
Anonymous said...
It's amusing that New Zealand has a wardance, but is nowhere to be seen during wars.

The sheer historical ignorance of this statement is unbelievable and obscene. Since its founding New Zealanders have served with great distinction and unfortunately huge loss of lives in many conflicts including both World Wars, and only a brainless fool could make such a statement.

By Banyon, at June 12, 2009 4:27 pm
why does everyon kick up such a fuss when anyone decides to challenge the haka? its an immidatory act anyway, and when used in a confrontational game like rugby, it should be confronted. Its a wardance.. you're suppose to sit back and say "thank you very much for trying to psyche us out, of course we chaps would never do the same." Fair play to those boys, I'd urge every country to do the same. Long live the spirit of Willy Anderson!

By thebull3, at June 12, 2009 4:33 pm
Going back to the 1989 Irish challenge. The NZ captain said that was a great challenge. So there should be no issue with any team standing up to the haka. The Irish captain and NZ captain were eyeball to eyeball at end of the haka.
The haka is a challenge afterall. So naturally a team dont just stand there and take it. Defeats the purpose of the haka if the challenge is not taken!
It would be worse and insulting if a team were to turn their back on the haka for example.
Commentator is clearly a moron for what he said about the challenge!

By Keith, at June 12, 2009 4:35 pm
People go on about ireland never hav beaten NZ in rugby,yet they dont no anythin.Rugby is only the 5th biggest sport in ireland,behind gaelic fooball,hurling,soccer and even boxing,while the only new zealand can do is play rugby.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 4:40 pm
I love this if they are throwing down a challenge the irish were right to accept it ad throw down a challenge of their own.....the kiwi's think they can do what they want and not expect other teams to face up to it, like Nonu's reaction to the welsh earlier this year.

By Waldo, at June 12, 2009 5:32 pm
The comments concerning this post are a shamme to Rugby, and Rugby spirit. Rugby Dump seems, in the post, like a Soccer Blog.

By Rui Silva, at June 12, 2009 5:33 pm
all this 'ireland don't even play rugby' - rubbish!! Ireland have 21000 registered adult male players.
NZ have 29000. Not that different and they still get mocked every time. I'm kiwi and i love the haka. i also don't really care what other teams do in response.
the bottom line is... 17-0. thanks for coming paddy now go back to banging on about how amazing brian o'driscol is - not that it's ever done you any good.
btw - paul o'connell is garbage.

By felix, at June 12, 2009 5:36 pm
I dont think the Baby Blacks took offence at all.
I heard from a fd who's been to NZ that a traditional Haka was supposed to be right in your face anyway

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 5:45 pm
ill add my 2 cents :P I think that, coming from England, the Haka is a great tradition in rugby and its a shame England doesn't have anything like it- I think the irish may have overstepped the mark a little, but it doesn't really matter- what matters is the challenge, but I don't think any shoves or punches should take place before a game

By humper, at June 12, 2009 6:10 pm
new zealand need to get over themselves.
they treat that haka like a baby.

fair enough thats the wat use to they psyche themselves up,but why cant ireland do the same by challenging it?

i love the haka in rugby,dont get me wrong,but let teams do what they want while the all blacks are doing it-be it watching it challenging it,or indeed ignoring it.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 6:22 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN0CmmcdtZE

One of the best challenges to the haka ever and both sides were face to face. The same goes for the RL WC final last year. The Aussies were practically touching the Kiwis. Was great theatre.

Ironically the commentator saying that Ireland were being 'ungracious' etc. isn't a Kiwi. That much is obvious from his accent.

I think you should be allowed to challenge the haka. Buck Shelford in 1989 thought Willie Anderson's challenge to the haka was brilliant. He loved it. Nonu was the one acting precious last year. Very childish reaction. It is a war dance and rugby is often compared to being a warzone out on the field. It makes sense to stand up to it. I think the Welsh in 08 and the French in 2007 probably got it right.

Wales just stood there and said 'this is our ground we're not moving till you do'.

France said 'if you want to intimidate us we're going to be right in your faces. Let's see how you guys react'

By Abbyno7, at June 12, 2009 6:23 pm
''It's amusing that New Zealand has a wardance, but is nowhere to be seen during wars.''
Idiot, do you have any clue how many Kiwi's died fighting for freedom in both world wars? If it weren't for the ANZAC's you'd maybe not even be living in (reasonable) peace.

''People go on about ireland never hav beaten NZ in rugby,yet they dont no anythin.Rugby is only the 5th biggest sport in ireland,behind gaelic fooball,hurling,soccer and even boxing,while the only new zealand can do is play rugby.''
Yes, rugby is New Zealands most prominent sport but the only thing we can do? Rugby League, Sailing, Hockey, Cricket, we're even most likely going to the next soccer world cup so I don't think it's all we can do...

By the way, I do think teams should be able to stand up against the haka, but keep it rational. The Welsh response was probably the best. Like Buck Shelford said: Teams should be able to stand up against the haka.
Also, Zac, think bro, why would you have to push him. Just smash him later in the game.

And, woohoo, well done Baby Blacks, can't wait till these players become All Blacks.

Go Kiwi!

By Cheesekiwi, at June 12, 2009 6:42 pm
That commentator is an idiot. If the All Blacks can do the Haka then Ireland should be allowed to do whatever they like. If they want they can stand with their backs to it. SCREW HIM

By Unknown, at June 12, 2009 6:46 pm
i agree Nick let them respond or dont do any, the commentator said it was irratating him his comes done same to me

By joeblack, at June 12, 2009 7:31 pm
the kiwi who lashed out should have been carded, the irish player who did not retaliated probably stopped a pre-match brawl.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 7:32 pm
that commentator should be packed in cotton wool and shipped off to commentate on cricket our boules or anything else that does'nt involve physical confrontation. what a bloody moron!

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 7:42 pm
i love the haka and it's tradition in rugby - but if you do the haka, you have NO SAY in how it should be faced.

"guys, we're going to throw down the gauntlet so if you could just form a line and watch we'd appreciate it..."

the only agreed condition must be that teams stay in their own halves.

in the future, i would recommend that catholic countries kneel and pray. eyes closed and silent. and then put the opposition to the sword (so to speak).

just like the good ol days of the crusades.

By capt. america, at June 12, 2009 7:54 pm
All the irish did is what they did a few years back. The haka is throwing a challegne at someone. Don't do that haka unless your willing to let someone accept that challenge. And "disrespectful," really? What's disrespectful is when the kiwis finished the haka, they pushed the irish players. They had no sportsmen ship, all they did was get mad.

By Hoss, at June 12, 2009 8:11 pm
I love the haka. I think it is one of the most interesting and important traditions in rugby, but lets be honest, it is a challenge to other teams, meant to intimidate at the start. It should be respected but I find nothing wrong with meeting up with it to show that you are not afraid. They didn't push or interrupt they just showed the ABs that they werent intimidated.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 8:47 pm
Wales response was much better, the Haka is to be respected so closing down on it is disrespectful HOWEVER, the Haka gives the All Blacks an advantage and is itself an act of intimidation so unless they are ready to expect a reply they should not do it and that would be a great shame for world rugby...a team capable of beating them after doing it might help as well otherwise then you look realllly silly!!!

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 9:19 pm
As a Frenchman, i'd say the most amazing challenge to the haka was the one in the WC 2007. Those guys with their blue-white-red shirts, in the Millenium stadium, in an epic quarter final, that we finally won... maaaaaan...everytime i look at it on youtube i'm just astonished, feeling like a junkee. i'll remember this moment all my life

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 9:31 pm
"A perfect example of copycat haka challenge...

The fact is that some teams miss the real sense of haka.
Personnally i loved wales "static" answer or the "march" of France during the RWC 2007, bacause they do it for themselves and with respect.

Here, it's just some young irritating fools.."

EXACTLY.

The French and the Welsh got it right. Here the Irish kids just looked like complete bellends. And they bricked it at the end of the Haka when a few players bucked up to them.

Just kids trying to immitate and looking like twats.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 9:37 pm
Wow.. some angry/opinionated people out there.

All i can say is echo the words on one of the other commenters:

The Aussie and Saffers (who are the only sides in the world to consistently beat the All Blacks) never disrespect the haka, or even let it bother them.

They just focus on the rugby game to be played, and try to, you know, beat the kiwis at the game of rugby they are playing.

It seems like the ones moaning for it to be done away with have no chance of ever beating them. Either that, or you're young and ignorant, and playing/watching rugby for the wrong reasons.

My opinion.

Also, apologies to the Scots in my comment at the start of this.. no offence was meant.. was just trying to make a point. I'm neither kiwi nor irish btw

By FrankyH, at June 12, 2009 9:45 pm
im irish.

and that just wasnt cool.

By bD, at June 12, 2009 10:02 pm
ok then, lets ban the following from rugby as they piss off some annonymous rugby supporter from somewhere in the world:

1. The Haka
2. The National Anthems
3. Shaking hands with the royal beforehand
4. The B&I Lions
5. 99.9% of Referees
6. Swing Low Sweet Chariot

Any more to add to the list?

By Simon7, at June 12, 2009 10:03 pm
how can you say that the welsh and french answers were better? the irish did the exact same just missing the big atmosphere. and none of them are origional by the way all of them have been done before,people are just looking for something to complain about these days.

By con bons, at June 12, 2009 10:09 pm
The haka is a war dance to challenge the opponents, HOW THE HELL DID IRELAND GO TO FAR.

We can challenge u with a war dance but dont get to close this is our personal space.

Thats stupid, Irish did the rite thing. If the all blacks dont want ppl getting up in there faces do the haka in Dressing room.

Lets face in the all blacks just want ppl to bow down and cry cause anything else u do is offencive. BOD got spearded for being offending the haka even though thats what a tribe chiften told him to do.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 10:10 pm
I actually watched this match and had mixed feelings about it...

I think it's acceptable to challenge the Haka but important not to disrespect it.

Ireland DID cross the line...to be exact the half way line and that was a step too far. But it did seem like it fired them up as their tackling was pretty ferocious..

The NZ goal kicker also missed a couple of early chances with penalties too so I reckon it probably did have an effect on their mindsets.

End result was 17-0 though which might seem like a lot but it could probably have been more.

By gfhmon, at June 12, 2009 10:49 pm
The BOK's take the Haka and dont moan and groan or step right in the AB's faces. Its tradition and i think the AB's respect the fact that the BOK's are prob one of the few countries that appreciates the Haka..

Silly provocation by the Paddies...and they got whooped..haha

By semperfimamba, at June 12, 2009 10:55 pm
Perhaps it's been said already...I didn't want to read the 203 comments...but the Haka is tiring. Why should any opposing side have to respect it? Why should they be forced to watch it? I'd rather see a counter move like the old Blue Goose(?) whisky commercial where the Scots raise their kilts in response. The argument of tradition is stupid...people use to do many things in many places for sake of tradition and don't anymore.

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 11:29 pm
ban the haka?

strange considering the MOST VIEWED video on "rugby" (search for it) on Youtube is the NZ Haka, not even a fuckin game of rugby. The next two most viewed are AGAIN the NZ haka.

NZ only started doing the haka again at the insistence of BRITISH crowds during the 70s.

Read a fucking book you little kids.

By CheckYoself, at June 12, 2009 11:36 pm
if the AB's can do their "traditional" dance (coz half of them arent from NZ) why dont all the other countries do their traditional dances...ireland can do the river dance, usa can do soldier boy and scotland can do the highland fling!

By Anonymous, at June 12, 2009 11:50 pm
That commentator was an idiot, it was entirely fine. What is the problem with responding to the haka, a challenge of war, with a simple notification of acceptance of that challenge? What these guys did, and indeed what the haka is, is brilliant. It adds to the theatre of rugby, and this response definitely isn't disrespectful to the Maori tradition.

By Unknown, at June 12, 2009 11:52 pm
actually does anyone recall when not so long ago wales insisted the welsh national anthem must be played AFTER the Haka, the Abs (displaying their usual arrogance) refused that despite the fact wales were the hosts. they ended up performing their stupid dance in the dressing room and got in a right fit about it.
having said that they talked a good fight and contonued to thrash wales

By Anonymous, at June 13, 2009 12:21 am
why do we have to be so confrontational.... the haka is a challenge to walk away is defeat in tradition!

we have been through this! i like people standing up to the haka ,

the commentators are idiots!

why should we fear the all blacks, as a great irish player once said the only thing that makes the strong is the jersey, deep down they are men like everyone else

By Patron, at June 13, 2009 12:58 am
How is it ungracious of the Irish to stand up to the haka, but it's not for a NZ player to push an opposition player in the chest before the game's even started?

Also, why aren't the Irish given an alloted time to stand opposite them and say "we're going to kick your ass" start dancing and giving the opposition the fingers? Doesn't seem much different to the Haka to me.

By Anonymous, at June 13, 2009 1:37 am
Contrary to "whats the pionts comments", the Haka, and its pacific island variations, is as a traditional part of our rugby history as William Web Ellis himself. It is a unspoilt, special and unique part of our game (I once witnessed the BYU football team perform the Haka towards the own set of fans????!!! now that's pointless)

While it is great to see teams occationally confront the Haka, the autumn teasts for instance, and who could forget England hooker Richard Cockrills' once man offensive against the NZ war dance, if this behavior becomes common place we may witness the sad dissapearence of the Haka from international rugby.

Don't whine that it is an unfair advantage to the All Blacks just because they thought of it first.

The way to "stand up" to the Haka is best done within 80 minutes of rugby, beating the All Blacks and making their pre-match traditions irrelavent.

By Unknown, at June 13, 2009 1:56 am
Everyone that plays NZ and has the privilege to face the Hakka feels motivated likewise. Marketing or not it contributes to the sport spirit, as the toughness of the Irish, French handling skills, the mentality of the bocks, the environment at Twickenam, etc, etc. Hakka’s no better than to listen Flower of Scotland at Murrayfield or than to see Wales smashing England at the Millennium. As for the Aussies, they have Matt Giteau and three massive finals of the WC, etc etc.
The point is you look like football arses discussing if they should ban traditions or if they should contest or not rituals. That´s rugby, you should react as you must down there. It´s all about that battle.
And that´s why I love rugby.

By Anonymous, at June 13, 2009 2:10 am
Please RD no more "controversial haka" items because nobody will change their minds about it and it's all been said over and over and most of what's said is rubbish. Just an easy way to get a coupla hundred comments. A bit boring really.

By danny, at June 13, 2009 2:31 am
I've never understood how the kiwi's find it discourteous isn't the haka a challange anyway so if you follow that logic, arent you meant to "respond" to a challenge?

And the commentators are just plain boring, I wish Kearnsey was there :D

By Anonymous, at June 13, 2009 2:50 am
They do their Haka, then you can do your thing. Neither side should be allowed to interfere with the other's. "Foolhardy and ungracious" is right.

By Ref, at June 13, 2009 3:03 am
I think the announcers should shut up. I love the haka but everyone gets all butt-hurt when people stand up to it. If they're going to do then accept that the opposing team is going to choose a way to show unity against it. It should have been more original than copying France at the RWC and it's still better than the Wallabies turning around and doing warm up drills.

By Anonymous, at June 13, 2009 3:51 am
The HAKA is a proud tradition with NZ teams and rightfully respected around the world,however, opponents do have the right to stand up to that challenge. Why should the Irish just stand there and take it? Boxers "stare" each other down before a fight. It is all about the psychological edge. The Springboks did exactly the same thing before the 1995 WC Final and the result is history.
Stop critising the Irish. Turning your back on them is bigger insult.

By Anonymous, at June 13, 2009 4:17 am
Most Kiwis have no problem with people standing up to the Haka.
It's fine. Advance or whatever.
Everyone comments on Nonu, but his viewpoint (and that's all it was, his opinion) was the exception. Most of the team and most of the supporters loved what Wales did, it added to the occasion.
The thing is though, it really doesn't matter what you do to the Haka if you THEN LOSE THE GAME!
No one cares, cuz you've still lost.
Australia and South Africa respect the haka.
They don't let it intimidate them, simple as that. Frankly if you allow the haka to intimidate you, giving the All-Blacks an advantage, YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING RUGBY!
The Aussies and Saffers just go out and play the game, and often win. That way no one gives a stuff about the haka, all anyone cares about is you've won the game.
The problem with the Irish, is they've never won. All this complaining is just throwing your toys out of the pram, cuz you can't win the bloody rugby game. How about focusing on producing a team that CAN SCORE A SINGLE BLOODY POINT?
Focus on the rugby and the haka will become irrelevant.
Or just keep losing, and moaning about the haka.

By Anonymous, at June 13, 2009 4:31 am
danny's right

enough

By TJ, at June 13, 2009 7:01 am
I'm Kiwi and I think that's perfectly acceptable way to face the Haka, nothing disrepectful or disrupting there.

I do, however reckon that no.11's push in the end was uncalled for.

By Anonymous, at June 13, 2009 7:28 am
The thing some of you guys are overlooking is that the Irish were pushing forward, about to actually push over, or stand on, the AB players. You guys think thats fine?? To have physical contact prematch?

Challenging is certainly acceptable, but they cant be allowed the touch them or disrupt it in the way that they cant even move their arms or do the actual thing.

Either you place a serious complaint about it with the IRB prematch, or you accept it and dont disrupt it physically. Again though, challenging is perfectly fine.. just dont get in their space - that's disrespectful.

By JimmyJam, at June 13, 2009 10:42 am
i was glad when i saw the scoreline

By Anonymous, at June 13, 2009 11:15 am
Sorry tried to register but sturrgled with that special code thing With the weird letters

As a rugby player i respect the blacks rite to Haka , But belive the irish did the rite thing challenging it.

It DOES give you and advantage , and if the irish had won they would be being praised instead of insulted.

I think it was good on you lads

Jake mandrake

By Anonymous, at June 13, 2009 11:24 am