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Sunday, November 15, 2009

England booed but come up with win over Argentina

England were booed by their home crowd at Twickenham on Saturday after a disorganised Argentina team stayed in the match to only go down 16-9 in the end.

A week ago England lost to Australia, and this performance against the South Americans has disappointed the expectant fans.

England coach Martin Johnson has since admitted that the fans were justified in being vocal about the team’s performance.

"I think we probably deserved it. Errors really hurt us. We had far too many. At times we could have kept the ball in hand but didn't," he said.

"We kicked poorly, we didn't chase well and they put the pressure back on us. It ultimately comes down to finding a way to win the game which we did. We have got to improve for next week. We can't produce a performance like that again. It wasn't good.

"At times the crowd had every right not to be happy. A lot of them kept with us and that was great."

"Jonny Wilkinson made couple of errors more than normal but his presence steadies the team. That is what veteran players do."

Argentina captain Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe, whose team plays Wales next weekend, indicated that England were predictable. "We analysed how England were going to play and it didn't surprise us. It will be even tougher at the Millennium Stadium.

"We put England under pressure. Our defence was really, really good. I am just disappointed that, from one little mistake, we ended up losing the game.”

Centre Gonzalo Tiese was disappointed with the loss but proud of how the team played.

"England have been together for three weeks. We just met up and had to go through every aspect of the game briefly because we didn't have enough time.

"We had a smart game plan. We played some smart rugby. We controlled the game for long periods of time. We have a good base now and hopefully with an extra week we can improve a lot," he said.

Time: 07:20
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  • God!! england are devoid of ideas or a gameplan

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 15, 2009 9:25 pm  

  • 'Are you saying Boo, or Boo-urns?'

    'I was saying Boo-urns!'


    By Anonymous Huh!! the 3rd, at November 15, 2009 9:29 pm  

  • definite boo-urns lol, even wilko was boo-urns

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 15, 2009 9:34 pm  

  • They'll still get to the '11 world cup final.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 15, 2009 9:39 pm  

  • i hope the clip consists just of them being booed

    By Blogger Mikee, at November 15, 2009 9:42 pm  

  • Johnson doesn't have a clue
    Monye at fullback!?
    Banahan STILL in the team!?
    We're gonna be a laughing stock at the 6 nations if things dont change

    By Anonymous ElTigre, at November 15, 2009 9:49 pm  

  • England has the biggest talent pool in world rugby, yet they continue to suck. Why?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 15, 2009 9:54 pm  

  • Hipkiss and banahan suck for england, bring in tait and strettle.

    By Anonymous WelshOsprey, at November 15, 2009 9:59 pm  

  • How does England manage an exciting domestic competition but are so lost as an international side?

    By Anonymous YankeeRugger76, at November 15, 2009 10:50 pm  

  • I loved Banahan after the match "we went out and played the gameplan, which was to pass the ball out wide"

    That's interesting Matt, because from where I was watching, it looked like the plan was to kill any excitement in the game by aimlessly playing ariel pingpong and never even trying to run it. You fucking tool.

    Guscott suggested making the ball heavier the other week, so that you couldn't kick it as far. I thought it was a shit idea, but I'm starting to change my mind.

    By Anonymous HM, at November 15, 2009 11:26 pm  

  • i think everyones forgetting they beat a team who are two places above them in the rankings despite having lost 90% of their first team from last year. the same team that came SECOND int he 6 nations, geez people need to give england a break, theyre blatantly not at the same level they were a few year ago but theyre still very much a force to be reckoned with. didnt see anything great from Ireland or Wales this weekend, it appears only France are the real 'giant killers' in the NH at the moment

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 15, 2009 11:41 pm  

  • "Johnson doesn't have a clue
    Monye at fullback!?
    Banahan STILL in the team!?"

    Quite ironic seeing as Banahans try won the game.....

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 15, 2009 11:54 pm  

  • A bit like the Wales-Samoa match...Argentina was just unlucky to not come out on top (like Samoa).

    And anonymous, ARE they still "very much a force to be reckoned with"?

    I agree with ElTige - Ugo "Butterfingers" Monye should've been cycled out of fullback last week when Johnson SHOULD have seen that it wasn't where he belongs. And as for Banahan...great, he got his try (any winger at his level would've been expected to finish that), so now he can be replaced with no regrets and he can still feel good about himself. Yay, sunshine and flowers all around. For god's sake, get in some backs who can run with the freaking ball. I watched the game and had to look up who the centers were just now, they were so anonymous the whole match.

    I will say that Hodgson looked pretty good, as did Moody (really?), Croft was alright, Haskell did well again....anyone else really stand out? Argentina look better every time I see them play. Too bad 2012 is a long way off. I wish they'd just join next year's 3N...

    By Anonymous yam, at November 16, 2009 12:02 am  

  • Well you just said 'And as for Banahan...great, he got his try (any winger at his level would've been expected to finish that)'

    so great....he did his job well then, he finished off what any winger at his level should.....he did his job well....

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 16, 2009 12:24 am  

  • I think that Argentina could win the match if the players had dared to play more the ball, specially for the backs that kicked a lot(in the first half) in the second one England played better, and Argentinian players were very tired.To conclude England used his good moement as difference of Argentina.Weel for England

    Argentina played with 5 amateur players!!!!!

    By Anonymous Peter, at November 16, 2009 12:32 am  

  • embarrassing if your english eh? ;)
    man i love seeing you smug poms lose
    also your coach is a joke

    By Anonymous easypickings, at November 16, 2009 2:21 am  

  • Well, easy pickings...where are you from? and eng didnt lose to arg.....embarrassing, but not a loss

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 16, 2009 3:16 am  

  • yeah england didn't lost the game but either played the best they can, and the pumas played well at times
    it was a hard match. at this level mistakes can cost you the game, that is what happened to argentina, one big mistake = 7 points
    rugby stuff
    i played a final today and lost 21-20 with a failed penalty at minute 78, that kind of things is normal in this sport
    anyway england won

    i don't speak or write english perfectly, i made an effort to make me understand, i hope you guys did
    greetings from argentina

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 16, 2009 3:40 am  

  • "England has the biggest talent pool in world rugby, yet they continue to suck. Why?"

    The largest player base in the world consists of guys playing rugby in a park on a saturday afternoon.

    England have not many more players playing elite level rugby then any other nations, so to expect them to have a bigger pro level base then say NZ or France etc... and not be effected by injuries is pretty ridiculous to be honest.

    the biggest problem is these guys seem to have no game plan, get a game plan and your patterns in place and a mediocre team can become and effective one.

    And yes Argentina could have won the match but they didn't, suck it up and move on, they are a good side, higher then England, Scotland wales etc... so don't demean their standing by saying England are rubbish for beating them.

    By Anonymous goodNumber10, at November 16, 2009 7:37 am  

  • Let's not kid ourselves England fans, we haven't been anywhere near the top 5 in the world since 03 and we need to assess why. There have been so many false dawns for English rugby in the past six years based on the occasional good game, we fool ourselves that we're making progress.

    Yes, there are a lot of injuries at the moment but I've seen equally disappointing performances when we've been at full strength.

    For me, the main problem is the combination of the Guinness Premiership, Heinekin Cup and Anglo-Welsh Cup. This provides:

    1. Too much rugby leading to injuries and a serious lack of continuity among the England side

    2. Unimaginative rugby based on kicking the ball and hoping that your opponent makes a mistake. GP defences are much better than GP attacks so you get the kind of attritional game that the England players revert to when put under pressure.

    By Anonymous Ted, at November 16, 2009 8:54 am  

  • Is the delay in Rugby Dump putting up the highlights because there were no highlights in this stinking turd of a game?

    I am English and the idea of paying good money, travelling hours, being overcharged for food and drink to watch this "entertainment" is laughable.

    Here is a question: how much would you have to be paid to watch England at the moment? If I was offered a free ticket, beer and meal I still wouldn't bother going - it would be 2 hours of my life wasted!!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 16, 2009 11:20 am  

  • easypickings said...
    embarrassing if your english eh? ;)
    man i love seeing you smug poms lose
    also your coach is a joke

    HAHAHAHAHA!...england won u retard!

    By Anonymous Englandwon, at November 16, 2009 11:36 am  

  • To "easypickings" et al. England's performance was so woeful it deserves your criticism and more.... There is no defense.

    If England play that badly next week then I'll be burning my England shirt in the Twickenham carpark.

    Oh, and to the 'Anon.' above who was quick to defend Banahan's performance on the basis of his try; Stephen Hawkings could have run that one in....

    By Anonymous Le Brack, at November 16, 2009 12:30 pm  

  • Steve has breains, tho

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 16, 2009 12:59 pm  

  • The articles are put up first for the sake of discussion. Highlights will follow when possible. Cheers

    By Blogger RD, at November 16, 2009 1:36 pm  

  • I would agree that there are some odd choices such as monya at fall back, but I think its sad that we are taking up a similar approach as you see in football, where everyone blames the manager more than the players. They are meant to be the best in England and wear the shirt with pride, but they just seems to be a lack of caring and effort by the players. The players are making such bad decisions that they never would do at club level. Maybe its time for MJ to start taking a three or less strike rule, either step up and deliver or leave the squad.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 16, 2009 1:58 pm  

  • "If I was offered a free ticket, beer and meal I still wouldn't bother going"

    Fair weather fan? You are a disgrace. I would pay you NOT to go and watch with that stinking attitude! Winning the world cup brought is too many fair weather fans, fans who jumped on the band wagon. Stay at home.

    By Anonymous Jeroo, at November 16, 2009 2:06 pm  

  • Get monye out for the moment, at least at full back. Need to see tait, vainokolo back in. You have to say vainokolo is atleast better in attack than banahan? Tait is just quality.

    By Blogger cp85, at November 16, 2009 2:24 pm  

  • Based on the England performances from the last couple of weeks I am scared to go and watch them against the All Blacks at Twickenham this weekend.

    Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what the scoreline will be? I dread to think. New Zealand by at least 30 points?

    Please have a look at my blog:

    By Blogger Bamberio, at November 16, 2009 2:27 pm  

  • Jeroo, I do see your point but in return for being a loyal fan I would atleast like to see some fight and passion. We weren't playing to our strengths at all (which wuld have been fine) we were just shit. We went backwards in every tackle, we've lost our belief, our arrogance, our hardness. I know Arg are higher in the rankings but I do believe we are better than them. Woefull. I wouldn't be too upset should we lose to NZ but i'd atleast like to see us give it some f*cking welly.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 16, 2009 2:33 pm  

  • Thanks for your thoughts Jeroo. Actually I have been playing rugby since 1984 and watching Rugby since 1990.

    What you see as disloyalty I see as a natural desire for excellence. I won't simply follow England because I am from England - & I believe that those who continue to give money to the RFU whilst they play such witless rugby are not doing anything to accelerate an improvement

    However, those are just my thoughts and if that makes me a fair weather support, I can live with that.

    Hope you enjoy the next England V Italy match because I most certainly will not be watching

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 16, 2009 2:34 pm  

  • The all blacks will crush england

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 16, 2009 3:24 pm  

  • Steven [Hawking]
    can't play rugby...

    because his headgear is illegal.

    By Anonymous cheyanqui, at November 16, 2009 4:40 pm  

  • "English fans love watching losers, I see. I can't believe the Arg game was sold out."

    Fair Weather supporters FTW!!

    By Anonymous goodNumber10, at November 16, 2009 7:47 pm  

  • Bamberio, I read it, it's a pretty accurate assesment of the weekend, but i'd rather see a decent game then Carters Biceps LOL!!!

    TED, you are absoloutely right about the number of games.

    I'd still like to see the GP expanded to 16 teams, then split into two pools, home and away = 14 games, then top 2 from each pool into play offs, max of 16 games. then european cup based on knock out placement.

    Simple and reduces the number of games by nearly 10.

    Get rid of the anglo welsh cup - we already have the euopean why do we need this? and bring back the national cup, but only introduce premier teams, excluding the european cup teams, when you get to the last 16 of the competition.

    Grand total of 21 Maximum (I think my maths sucks) if you makethe cup final and knock outs in the league.

    By Anonymous goodNumber10, at November 16, 2009 7:55 pm  

  • has anybody realised that wilko could be the reason for lack of creativity. i mean his running and distributing game is not that great. mind you the centres are supposed to create opportunities not just the 10.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 16, 2009 8:36 pm  

  • The thing that annoys me is England have the potential to play entertaining attacking rugby. If England were to field a backline of:

    9. Care
    10. Wilkinson
    11. Moye
    12. Geraghty
    13. Tait
    14. Strettle
    15. Foden

    They could cause any team in the world problems. It's just Johnson wants to stick to the style which one England a world cup and England just don't have the players to play that type of game anymore!

    By Anonymous Chris, at November 16, 2009 9:53 pm  

  • Right, before we get to defensive about the England setup remember that the Pumas were fielding 4 amateurs and didn't decide to play any front foot rugby until the final 10 minutes. Wilkinson has an average game and the the whole thing goes to pot. Considering how green some of the pumas backline were they shouldn't have had a chance, but they were the most exciting team on the pitch.

    The problem is the approach to coaching and the whole setup. I don't believe Johnson is the problem, the whole setup is flawed. Monye is a great winger, so he's a fullback. Goode hasn't played the sort of rugby you need for an international but he's always on the bench. Hipkiss and Geraghty play unimaginative slow rugby so we stick with them as a centre pairing. Thompson's not playing really badly, but with 2 years to the world cup is that what we need on the bench?

    The thing is this problem has been inherent since 2003, so it's time to look at things that have been static since that time. Is it Rob Andrew? maybe.

    I think like most England fans, I don't care if we lose but it looks like there is a bit of a game plan and some creativity, but there looks like a lot of commited players who are totally confused about what the hell is going on.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 16, 2009 11:44 pm  

  • Jeez what was the at the end of the interview? :o

    By Anonymous JLH, at November 17, 2009 12:05 am  

  • That my friend is what feeling the pressure of being the England rugby head coach is like right now... :S

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 17, 2009 12:43 am  

  • definitely worth watching to the end that one alright! I'd say the interviewer was brickin it.

    By Anonymous mise, at November 17, 2009 1:26 am  

  • When did English rugby interviewers/journalists become such little bitches?

    By Anonymous Jack, at November 17, 2009 1:31 am  

  • Love the look Johnson gives the interviewer at the end. He was ready to rip his head off haha! :)

    He definitely was one of England's greatest players/captains. What a scary man.

    By Blogger Alasdair, at November 17, 2009 3:13 am  

  • "Next week New Zealand. Are you ready for them?"

    "Well not now we're pretty tired we've just had a game."


    I feel for Martin Johnson. I really hope England do well against NZ.

    How about at the end of the inerview there.

    "Thank you."
    "Yes I said think you."

    I bet Johnson was thinking about a left hook to the guys face.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 17, 2009 3:16 am  

  • haha.. Martin did well... looks like the interviewer was struggling to hold in his real thoughts of Englands ability as a team in doubting their chanes against NZ by being a little biatch... oh well; whadya expect?-- England sucks... Good on him for making a funny and interesting interview, and good on MJ for keeping his composure and showing whose still boss... But yep, a right hook woulda been awesomer...

    By Anonymous Ryan, at November 17, 2009 9:42 am  

  • love to see england do so badly, lack of creativity and mobility has been evident since the world cup in 03, the new laws just dont allow for old tired and fat players to play anymore and just bully the otherside, you need talented fit players which johnson hasnt realised yet! wont start taking england seriosly until they begin dropping players who arnt up to scratch and are only there on reputation like borthwick,thompson and cueto and start bringing in some attacking players who cause other team problems and can keep up with the pace of modern rugby e.g foden, tait and perhaps scivington. as for using the rain as an excuse as its pitifull! Uk is much rainier than argentina and they dont complain it should in fact be an advantage! also dont complain about the injuries every other side has them and as england has the largest player base they should be the best equipped to deal with it! oh and btw guinnes premiership sucks and is not on the same par as the top 14 and magners because it promotes negative rugby!
    anyway rant over (finnally)england is the most powerfull union worldwide in regards to cash and populace and you just beat a scratch pumas side filled with amateurs!there are no excuses!!
    and i am from the northen hemisphere(somtimes we should listen to the south)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 17, 2009 10:29 am  

  • I really don't understand the attitude of the reporter at the end, why the animosity?

    Whether or not they have Hernandez in the team, Argentina have just been invited to join Australia, New Zealand and South Africa in a four-nations tournament to replace the tri-nations. Their style of play is known to be very difficult to construct any kind of attack against and their defense and scrum are truly world class.

    Where does this assumption come from that wearing a rose is somehow indicative of a 'right' to destroy other top-class sides? Didn't Argentina beat England at Twickenham not so long ago?

    I'm not a fan of Martin Johnson's reliance on Leicester players such as Hipkiss and Goode but you can't fault his dedication and it's about time the English rugby community and (particularly) press started to move away from this football-oriented approach to heckling when things aren't going their way.

    I'm a Scotland supporter and if I took this kind of attitude to supporting my national team, I'd have stopped watching rugby a long time ago.

    I wouldn't have had much sympathy for the reporter at the end of this clip if Johnson had thumped him, that's not journalism, it's antagonistic sensationalism from a man who clearly doesn't 'support' his national side when they've won under tough conditions and a great deal of pressure.

    By Blogger Disco, at November 17, 2009 11:51 am  

  • The blame for the poor performances since 03 cannot be put down just to the managers - first it was Robinson's fault, then it was Ashton's fault, now it's Johnson's fault - as people have been saying this is a football culture fuelled by the media, as you can see with the journalist's questions at the end.

    There is a point to be made about selection and Johnson has stuck by players who are not delivering (Borthwick, Deacon, Hipkiss, playing Monye out of position) but I don't think he is responsible for the decisions the players make on the pitch.

    I don't think England produces better or worse rugby players than anywhere else, personally I think a national rugby team reflects how rugby is organised in that country. At the moment English rugby is poor because England's set up is poor.

    I would rather see a Super 14 style competition for the NH, with four elite sides from England and France, three from Wales and Ireland, two from Scotland and on from Italy (that's 17 I know). These sides would never face relegation so there would not be the same 'don't lose at all costs' mentality. It would increase the quality of rugby that the top players participate in and ensure a smoother transition from domestic to international competitions. It would also mean more of the top players from each country would play along side each other every week.

    It'll never happen though - too much money at stake.

    By Anonymous Ted, at November 17, 2009 1:58 pm  

  • referees? What happened with the last tackle? I heard "held up" , but it wasn't in the try zone. Isn't that just not releasing, penalty on England?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 17, 2009 3:30 pm  

  • England will beat New Zealand. The arrogant New Zealanders want to smash England (because you see, they're trying desperately to gain parity with the mighty Boks), but they're essentially a bunch of heartless mercenaries, while the English have heart, desire and passion. England will win, I guarantee it.

    By Anonymous UK Andy, at November 17, 2009 4:25 pm  

  • Andy, I would love to believe you and I'll be delighted if you're right, but I think the ABs are in a different league to us at the moment.

    By Anonymous Kev, at November 17, 2009 4:44 pm  

  • Well to everyone who is quick to attack banahan, he did his job and england won the game through his try, no one else scored that but him,......so given more opportunities i think he will shine through.....

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 17, 2009 8:47 pm  

  • Leicster and Saracens are showing more determination than England at the moment.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 17, 2009 10:56 pm  

  • UK Andy-your not from the UK-your obviously english, nobody in scotland,wales or N.Ireland would ever be that dilusional or arrogant! Stop kidding yourself and call yourself 'englishandy' becase your bringing the rest of the UK down by association!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at November 20, 2009 7:39 am  

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